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PTSD


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« on: April 18, 2009, 08:44:00 pm »


A new mission
Posted By IAN ELLIOT



When Samuel Smith was deployed to the former Yugoslavia in 1997, it marked the end of his military career, not the beginning of another chapter in it.

While serving on the peacekeeping mission, he developed sleeping disorders, nightmares about his infant daughter who died of a rare heart condition and a mysterious ailment that put him in a Sarajevo hospital for a month.

He was branded a malingerer within his unit, developed a cocaine habit after being medically returned to Canada in mid-tour. So haunted by what he had seen, Smith slept in his car and under bridges because he didn't feel safe indoors.

He staged a suicide attempt to try to get the help that he knew he needed.

He didn't get it. His once-promising army career ended with him being marched to the gates of CFB Petawawa by military police with his belongings in a garbage bag. He received one final order: "(Expletive) off and don't come back."

These days, what Smith was suffering from is recognized as post-traumatic stress disorder. Smith has just won a lawsuit against the Canadian Forces, one of more than two dozen filed by a Quebec City lawyer who argued that the former soldiers were ignored, discriminated against and refused help for conditions they came down with while on active duty.

"Nobody wants to admit that they have PTSD -- whether it's shame or bravado, no one wants to admit that they have a mental disorder," said Smith in the kitchen of his west-end home this week.

"All I wanted was for them to acknowledge what they did to mess up my life. I lost my career, I lost my marriage, I lost custody of my child -- everything was taken away from me and I had to build it back up."

The terms of his settlement with the government are confidential, but Smith said the recognition that he was suffering from a medical disorder -- and the government's pledge to pay for further counselling if he requires it -- means more to him than the small cash payout.

Since leaving the forces, Smith has undergone extensive psychological counselling and has rebuilt his life. He has regained partial custody of his young son, he is studying to go into the health-care field and has been clean for years, but his tale is typical of others who served in the Balkans.

"Things were different back then," he said.


"We didn't get any training, there was no place for us to turn. I don't want to say I won this because that's not how I feel. I just want to know that things are right and what's supposed to be there is there for any other veterans who find themselves in my position."

His lawyer, Jacques Ferron, said the cases he is taking to court, including Smith's, are an attempt to rectify a past wrong.

"These were peace tours, and they did not recognize PTSD, so the cases of these guys are different than the guys who are going to Afghanistan today," he said.

"They didn't have the preparation before they left and they didn't do anything when they came back, and while we suspect that they knew there were cases of PTSD, they didn't do anything about it."

Following the high-profile case of General Romeo Dallaire, who suffered from the syndrome after leading a mission in Rwanda, identification and treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder has taken on a higher profile in the army. Troops learn about it in basic training and they are screened for it, even when they are in theatre.

The Forces has also established special post-traumatic stress disorder clinics at bases around the country, although in a report last year, interim ombudsman Mary McFadyen said while the military has taken steps to address the issue, more remains to be done.

"Investigators found and the office is aware of a number of individual cases where military members and/or their families were not treated fairly by the Canadian Forces or, for a variety of reasons, did not get access to the care and treatment that they so desperately needed," her report last December found.

"Injured soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen who have served their country with courage and dedication are slipping through the cracks of an ad hoc system."

She also noted post-traumatic stress disorder still has a stigma and people are reluctant to seek help in case it is seen as weakness.

Smith, whose father was an NCO, joined the army right out of high school, looking for some structure in his life.

A driver with a service battalion, he worked in Ottawa for several chiefs of staff before being deployed to the former Yugoslavia in 1997.

He was not in combat, but driving through the ruined country, seeing amputee children and the effects of the nation's civil war started taking a toll on him.

"It was hard," he recalled. "I've always been a family man and I was driving around seeing the destruction, seeing the kids with no arms and no legs, and I started dreaming about my daughter, I dreamed she was in a cooler somewhere there with bandages around her head, and I'd never had dreams like that before."

He developed nightmares, irritability, sleep disorders and finally, a baffling medical condition that caused him to be hospitalized for a month as doctors speculated he had everything from tuberculosis to HIV.

He dropped from 210 to 170 pounds during his hospitalization and when he was released from hospital -- with a diagnosis of pneumonia -- he returned to his unit only to find that he was seen as a slacker, or in military terms, an MIR commando, a disdainful term referring to soldiers who report to the medical inspection room with vague symptoms to get out of their duties.

"I didn't understand what was happening," Smith said. "I was ashamed because I was being repatriated, and because I couldn't understand what was wrong with me.

"I couldn't understand how I could go from being a good soldier to someone who was seen as a disruptive influence on his unit."

The story he tells is a familiar one. The Bosnian conflict was seen as a peacekeeping exercise, and troops were expected to tough it out -- the saying in the Forces was that a soldier would rather die than cry -- and neither the troops nor the chain of command knew much about post-traumatic stress disorder, let alone how to deal with it.

The prevailing ethos was "suck it up or get out," and Smith remembers adopting that ethos.

Upon his return to his unit, he says his symptoms d he was increasingly ostracized by his superiors. What little psychological help he was offered was of no use.

"I'd go see them, and the only thing they wanted to know was if I was thinking of hurting myself, and I wasn't," he said.

"Of course, I was sleeping under a bridge in below zero weather, so maybe I wasn't trying to kill myself, but it might happen anyway."

He finally took a handful of pills and walked over to a friend's shack to tell him what he had done in hopes that he would get help.

When he came to in hospital, he confessed to his drug use and the army put him into a rehab program, first insisting that he sign his own release papers in addition to the rest of the paperwork.

He completed the program, and when he returned to his unit, found himself medically discharged with a 5F classification -- disgraceful discharge -- and escorted off the base. He is still trying to get that classification changed to an honourable release.

Smith cleaned himself up. He spent months in in-patient psychological facilities -- with pride, he said he did it himself -- although he still feels the army let him down.

"When you're in the army, they're supposed to be like your mom and dad," he reflected. That was what his late father, the career man, drilled into him and it was one of the reasons he enlisted. It was also one of the reasons he kept going, because he felt his father wouldn't have wanted him to quit.

"They always tell you the army will take care of you, and they didn't," he said. "I didn't want my kids to think that I was some unstable guy who was just mad at the army. I just wanted what was right.

"You shouldn't be ashamed or punished for saying you need some help, and I hope what I've been through helps someone else who needs it."

Smith says he's just glad to be getting well again.

"It's nice to hear my family say that they like to see me smile again and say, 'It's nice to have you back.'"
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 08:51:24 am »

Concerned?


http://www.canadianptsd.com/ptsd.html
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009, 09:10:13 am »

The Last Act

By

Claudia Schibler

 

Political Fasts, today, commonly known as hunger strikes, have been around for eons and utilized as a means of peaceful protest to raise public awareness in an effort to replace abuse and inequality with justice.

 

Outside the White House, people have organized in an historic strike called ‘Troops Home Fast’; Gandhi’s hunger strike gained international attention as he rallied the people of India and opposed British Colonial policies; Ceasar Chavez and the United Farm Workers Hunger Strike attracted national attention and the support of Senator Robert F. Kennedy.  And let us not forget Dr. King, Jr., and Marion Dunlop, a 20th century suffragette; all perfectly sane people who chose to deprive themselves of food so those they represented would not be deprived of their rights.

 

If the Media had not been interested in pursuing their stories, the People would have remained uninformed and these leaders for change would have achieved nada: Nothing gained. History not made.

 

On April 6, 2009, Canadian Forces Veteran, Steven Dixon began his own hunger strike. He is in a protest for justice, recognition of illnesses, benefits, transparency, accountability and reform within the Dept of Veteran’s Affairs. He proudly served his country and now suffers from emotional and physical injuries, as well as Huntington’s disease. We’ll all die someday but Steven Dixon is dying now. He has no lingering hope there will be a miracle. He has no illusions he’ll change The Larger World like Gandhi or King. He just wants to seize the moment and affect his smaller world. He knows he'll never see change in his lifetime, however, he hopes others will see it in theirs.

 

Before the final curtain drops, Steven wants, as a last act, to present a gift to his brothers and sisters in arms which he feels will give even further meaning to a life already full of service to others. He has engaged in this selfless act, not for himself, but for the greater number who have found themselves negated and abused within the veteran community.

 

How will those he acts for react? Will strength be gained and for once ‘ALL’ come together and support him? And when he slips away, will his memory be honoured? Will anyone carry on his legacy of not giving up when there is even one veteran in need? Steven doesn’t want to become a martyr; however, he may become just that, if the Government AND the veteran community don’t get their act together. The last numbers I’ve seen: 197,000 traditional war veterans; 588,000 Canadian Forces Veterans; 77,000 survivors of these two groups: Total-862,000. That’s one hell of a Cast, that doesn’t include a full complement of children, extended family and friends. If it ever mobilized, the politicians might take notice and actually give a damn.

 

What will be the national/international impact as Steven hastens towards his death? Sadly, his story made it as far as a small column in the B section of the April 2nd edition of the Chronicle Herald. Let’s face it-stories of Veterans fighting for their rights have become tiresome; they just aren’t sexy. No history in the making here. No journalistic awards presented on a black tie night.

 

And that’s just how the Government likes it.  The Canadian public have been lulled into apathy by the repetitive and seductive tones of influential politicians singing the ever popular lyrics of the MPs hypnotic rhetoric: ‘We love our troops. We love our veterans. We support them. We’re doing more than enough for them.’

 

They’ve repeated it enough that they believe it. They’re hoping the rest of the nation does, too.

 

If this story does not gain momentum, then in all likelihood Steven will simply waste away as his body, quite literally, consumes itself and the public will be none the wiser. If the Public were to ever think critically, tune itself into the ineptness of Government and Mainstream Press and use their right to vote on more than Survivor or Idol, power would return to where it belongs; the Electorate.

 

Even if there was a desire to do so, moms and grand-moms, dads and grand-dads, sisters and brothers, sons and daughters, across this country, would not be given an opportunity to share their views. And if you should not agree with his method, look beyond to his message. The man and his message must be brought to every Canadian in all the nooks and crannies of this nation, because at one time or another, every village, city and outport has felt the loss of a family member, neighbour or friend who has served in uniform.

 

The method is just a sad by-product of the heartless, powerful few who will do anything to minimize the story, keeping it hidden in the back pages of a newspaper or keeping the public disinterested with their subtle political, powers of persuasion. Let’s not get lost in condoning or not condoning and put our focus where it belongs: On the bigger picture.

 

The Veterans have never wanted to place additional financial burden on the taxpayer; they’re taxpayers themselves. They’ve paid into their own programs and the Government has misused and absconded with their contributions. This same Government body attempts to mislead the public by implying they’re taking the food out of the taxpayer's mouth. Just who is doing the taking here?

 

Recently, the Nova Scotia Government offered Lockheed Martin, a company that earned over $3B in profits last year, $1.8 million in payroll rebates and the Federal Government will throw in $1.4 Billion. I’m wondering if the Taxpayers of this country, who declare such support, would balk at the small fraction of money (veteran’s own money) it would take to fix all the abuses of the veterans. The Government has selective memory. It tends to forget it takes soldiers to run the equipment it buys and soldiers to fill boots on the ground; soldiers they’ve made a moral contract with if a soldier should become veteran.

 

It’s not the soldiers or veterans who place financial burdens on the Canadian people, it’s the Government. When war plans are made and costs calculated, add the human element. If the cost is too high, then resign our military efforts to guarding our sovereign nation; ensure our citizens are secure and their basic needs (health, housing, education and infrastructure) are met before lining the pockets of multi-billion $$$ profit making companies like Lockheed Martin.

 

Steven Dixon is the face of all the young men and women who have heard your call to arms. They’ve answered this call since the birth of our nation. They want the same things all Canadians want. They have the same hopes, dreams and fears of their fellow citizens: The difference is what they have been prepared to do for their nation and complete strangers who they regard as friends and family: You. This is the ultimate gift they offer: “Greater love has no one than this; that one lay down his life…” What is done with this gift is an individual choice and one of conscience.

 

The death of a man is like the fall of a mighty nation (Czeslaw Milosz). It’s difficult to think about and accept, but this nation which has become desensitized, may not give more than a passing thought to Steven Dixon from Beaverbank, Nova Scotia. And for the life of me, I can’t fathom why he thinks we, in uniform or out, are the slightest bit worthy of his sacrifice in the first place. I hope he figures this out and lives his remaining weeks and months without giving one more thought to any of us. What Paris Hilton does is of more interest than what some veteran does.

 

Unfortunately, I don’t think this will happen. Steven seems determined to end his life with the same conviction he had living it. So I wonder, what will Joe and Jane Schmoe and Steven’s military/veteran family do before he goes from being warm and alive to cold and absent? If we chose to disassociate, then pray for a miracle to forget his face and his name.

 

However this whole story unfolds, I know he’ll haunt me. Long after you sleep the sleep of angels, I, for one, will not forget you, Steven Dixon.
 
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 12:42:40 pm »

You know , i feel that a lot of these problems, and by that i mean, soldiers being ignored as slackers  etc , when they are really just humansreacting to terrible things in life; stem from our society as a whole andeven the military, is now set up that even those who are in charge , are NOT ACCOUNTABLE for their respective responsibilities... i think this needs to be fixed.. people in charge, need to be held accountable.. someone , in charge , let these soldiers down , and they need to be taken to task, even now, long after the fact... they  had a hand in ruining one of their soldiers lives, or at least assist ing in ruining lives...maybe even now , some of those people are having problems because they realize they let their people down...i am not saying this to point fingers, just to say that i believe  it needs to be fixed...ranrad 
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 03:07:23 pm »

If you need help coping, my regimental brothers, reach out!


Afghanistan stress drives military families to seek help

23 minutes ago

CFB Petawawa, Ont. — The stress of multiple tours in Afghanistan is showing, as military families on this sprawling base and across Canada seek help in growing numbers.

At the Phoenix Centre for Children and Families in nearby Pembroke, Ont., the military caseload has soared to 71 families - up from 12 before the deadly Kandahar mission began more than three years ago. Another 26 are on a waiting list.

They're grappling with issues ranging from anxiety-driven child behaviours like bed wetting and aggression, to domestic violence, depression and marital breakdown.

Petawawa is an epicentre of reverberating effects from repeated exposure to an always tense and sometimes horrific war zone. Thirty-eight soldiers of the 117 Canadian troops killed in Afghanistan since 2002 were based here.

Soldiers are trained for up to a year for tours they voluntarily accept. Many are heavily decorated veterans of missions in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo and the Golan Heights.

But Afghanistan - particularly the volatile South where Canadians have been punching over their NATO weight since 2006 - is different. It involves dodging massive roadside bombs while taking fire from an enemy that is as ghost-like as it is resilient.

"There has always been a risk attached to deployments," said Pam Sampson, whose husband Warrant Officer Brian Sampson has six tours under his belt in hot zones around the world. He heads to Kandahar in September.

"This one is different because I am scared," she said. "Before, I was worried about how I was going to manage on my own, and it was difficult not seeing him for six months. Whereas this time, I'm scared. You know, I'm scared that he's not going to come home alive."

For Sampson's two daughters, aged 15 and 18, news of their Dad's next assignment hit hard.

"Just upon notification, my kids started having nightmares. My oldest daughter . . . she had nightmares about a padre coming to the office at her school to tell her that her Dad was killed."

Sampson has thought in cruel detail not just about the risk of losing her cherished husband, but that he'll come home hurt or forever changed.

"There's also the mental injuries," she said. "And I have heard other women say: 'That's not the same man that I used to know. He's come back different.'

"I've had other soldiers say to me it's hard to go to a place like Afghanistan and not have it change who you are."

Yellow ribbons flutter from a bridge leading to the Petawawa base to welcome the latest rotation of soldiers home. About 1,800 local troops and 400 reservists - many of them completing their second or even third tours in Afghanistan - will arrive over the next several weeks.

Therapist Greg Lubimiv, executive director of the Phoenix Centre in nearby Pembroke, says most soldiers will gradually blend back into usual routines.

For a small but growing minority, however, problems will range from sleeplessness and irritability to heavy drinking or drug use, erratic behaviour, panic, anger and hopelessness.

A post-deployment questionnaire was filled out last November by 8,222 Canadian Forces members. It showed that, three to six months after coming back from Kandahar, about six per cent - almost 500 respondents - had symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and/or major depression.

"Issues of family violence have increased," Lubimiv said. "It is much, much higher pressure, stress, worry and anxiety going on for family members now than I think ever before.

"I don't think we understand . . . how much what they're exposed to there can impact them," he said of soldiers who return to Kandahar with brief breaks at home between training and field exercises.

"They're seeing a buddy who's blown up, who's torn apart. They're seeing children and women and men who are . . .. dying of impoverishment."

An admittedly overstretched military has taken several steps to ease the burden on soldiers who often feel it would be career-limiting to turn down an overseas tour.

Parliament agreed last year to extend Canada's military mission in Afghanistan to 2011 from the previous 2009 pull-out date.

"I think the sacrifices are enormous and commendable," said Defence Minister Peter MacKay. "We've attempted to double the number of counsellors that are available to deal specifically with the effects of post-traumatic stress disorder. We've come a long way and there's a long way to go."

Ottawa committed $98 million to hire another 218 military mental health specialists, for a total of 447, by last month. That time frame was extended to 2010 as bases including Petawawa, like smaller communities across the country, struggle to attract social workers, psychologists and psychiatrists.

The former military ombudsman concluded, based on interviews in 2007, that soldiers "and their families were not getting the care that they needed in the Petawawa area to deal with operational stress injuries, the consequences of which could be tragic."

In response, the military now spends more time screening and training troops to ensure they're mentally and physically fit before heading to Kandahar, says Lt.-Col. Jim Kile, a physician and commanding officer overseeing health care on the base.

He calls it "First aid for the mind."

Mental-health staff "introduce our soldiers to the idea that they could be exposed to horrific things, horrible things, while in places like Afghanistan," he said. Troops are trained to frame such ordeals as "a normal person in an abnormal situation."

There are also efforts to mentally and physically assess soldiers when they come home, although issues can go undetected for months unless self-reported.

For families, there are 24-hour deployment centres for information updates, military family resource centres and a toll-free crisis line. Plans are underway for eight new support centres for injured soldiers and their families on bases across Canada, including Petawawa.

Such changes are welcome, said Bernadette Wren, director of mental health services at the Pembroke Regional Hospital. But she still expects a surge of referrals two to three months after soldiers return and start to process their latest tour.

Wren paused when asked about the lingering impact of such stress.

"I would think, given what we've experienced locally - with the losses, the trauma, with this being the third tour for some people - there's definitely going to be long-term effects.

"And we won't even have the full understanding of all that for probably the next 10 to 15 years."

Copyright © 2009 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 07:33:50 pm »

Veteran Steven Dixon on Day 10 of his hungers strike. This proud Canadian is trying to tell his story nationally. It is a sad fact that a Canadian Veteran must take such extreme steps.The fact that PTSD is a serious problem within the Veterans Community, is growing with more and more of our younger Veterans returning from Afghanistan.The mental health of all Canadians, and indeed the military is a priority. Our Government gives Millions to others but forgets about our own. A fully dedicated military and veterans hospital is required again in Canada, NDMC, Sunnybrook  long gone with the blessings of various Governments trying to save some money.

Yet another Canadian on Duty, this time in the harsh reality of Canadian politics.

Canadians of all ilks are doing their duty whether in the military, retired or in their civilian job. It makes me PROUD to be a Canadian.

PLease say a prayer and show your support for our troops and veterans.

Nil Sine Labore

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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 09:10:44 am »

http://www.veteranvoice.info/bulletinboard.htm

Read Steve Dixon's diary.

When you get to the very small print page click to enlarge twice only one side is in English and it changes from one to the other which side. Read about Legion funds and who administers them.
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 01:43:51 pm »

Interesting write up Mike..10-15 yrs down the road  alot of these heros and their families are going to be dealing with the effects of their duties over there.. that makes it real easy for any Gov to sweep them under the rug.. maybe that is why things are getting worse..our soldiers CANNOT find a way to trust those who ar supposed to be there to help them....and what of the real damage being done to the families right now.. they seem to be suffering almost in silence...they too are greatly affected day by day, hr by hr...it is time for a real shakeup at DND... Mr McKay.. your troops and their families and friends need you , yes YOU to get to the core of what is needed and get it fixed ..ASP.. or you are going to be in a mess your very self....rong
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 09:38:18 am »

Every little bit of victories hel.
*****************
By Alysa Landry

NAVAJO NATION — Access to treatment for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder is expected to be easier for Navajo veterans following an agreement signed recently between the Navajo Area Indian Health Service and the Northern Arizona Veterans Affairs Health Care System.

The agreement calls for social workers to operate from the Fort Defiance Hospital and the Chinle Veterans Center, both of which are in the Arizona portion of the 27,000-square-mile Navajo Nation.

But the services likely will be available to any Navajo veteran who needs help, IHS spokeswoman Jenny Notah said.

"In terms of the service area and the services provided, it's open to anyone enrolled in the northern Arizona catchment area," she said. "But we won't turn away anybody if they show up for services."

Thousands of combat veterans are diagnosed every year with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, a term used to describe the psychological and physical symptoms experienced by as many as 40 percent of all combat veterans.

An estimated 25 million United States soldiers don't leave war on the battlefield. Veterans who suffer from PTSD often experience nightmares, flashbacks and exaggerated startle responses — the phenomenon that sends veterans scrambling for shelter during fireworks displays or other unexpected explosions.

"PTSD is the only disorder that comes from outside your body or your mind," said George Lawson, one of the two social workers directed to provide services on the reservation. Lawson, a licensed clinical social worker and member of the Veterans Affairs' PTSD Outreach Team, is based at the Fort Defiance Hospital.

"Other disorders may be due to a chemical imbalance inside the body, but PTSD comes from being exposed to a traumatic environment or war zone," he said. "Most veterans feel like there's something wrong with them. Family or friends will say to get over it. A counselor would not say that. It would be like erasing a part of a person's life experience."

Lawson said he serves about 20 clients per week, including veterans of the Korean, Vietnam and

Persian Gulf wars and World War II. Many of the World War II veterans seeking services never sought help.

Lawson did not have information on the number of American Indian veterans suffering from PTSD, but he said the problem is substantial.

"Tapping the numbers is difficult," he said. "That's part of why we're here. We know the numbers are here, we just don't know how great they are."

The other Veterans Affairs-funded social worker is Ruthie Hunter, who eventually will provide services at the Chinle Comprehensive Health Care Facility.

Notah did not have information on a similar agreement to be signed with the New Mexico or Utah Indian Health Services and the states' Veterans Affairs offices.

"Our primary work has been with the Prescott (Ariz.) Veterans Affairs office," she said. "However, that doesn't prevent us from doing any outreach with New Mexico partners. At this time, I think the veterans are just beginning to learn about this service. The agreement marks a great opportunity for them to access these workers at closer distances."

Calls to Floyd Vasquez, spokesman for the New Mexico VA Health Care System, were unreturned this week.

The health care agreement, spearheaded by the Northern Arizona Veterans Affairs Health Care Center, came on the heels of a federal Veterans Affairs grant, spokeswoman Ame Callahan said. The grant allows VA employees based in the Prescott, Ariz., area to provide counseling and services in the remote locations on the reservation.

"What we wanted to do was provide more outreach to Native Americans because they're in such a rural area," Callahan said. "The reservation is so far away from facility. We wanted to take the services to them instead of them having to travel a long way to us."

The agreement also called for the IHS to provide office space for the social workers. The counselors will work in the hospitals, within existing facilities.

"That's a big deal for us because office space is so hard to find," Callahan said. "With the grant, we put social workers out there to provide services for PTSD, to do counseling, to do one-on-one work with people who need it."

The two social workers also will provide additional services such as applying for enrollment with Veterans Affairs, access to other health care options, benefits counseling or applying for disabilities.

The Northern Arizona Veterans Affairs Health Care System also has plans to expand services to the Hopi Nation, Callahan said.

The goal of the outreach program is to assist any veterans exhibiting symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, especially the young generation returning from Iraq or Afghanistan after serving multiple tours of duty, she said.

"Anyone can walk in as long as they're veterans," Callahan said. "We also have family members participate. We want to get the younger folks who just came back from the war, and the elders who can say they've been through it. We want people to feel safe talking about it."

Alysa Landry:

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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 12:14:59 pm »

Good to see this.. maybe we up here can learn something from them and improve our help sysstems..rong
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